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Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? #133681
02/15/11 02:59 AM
02/15/11 02:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,713
NY
GSDTrain Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Some of you may remember late last fall me posting about Mason having excessive itching and dry skin. After seeing some post by members, I thought maybe it was due to the change in humidity in the air.

Early December is when I started noticing that Mason was itching more and more and come the 17th (ish) I noted his first hair loss spot on his rear left leg around his "knee-ish" area. As the month went on, I noticed that spot getting a little redder and him continuing to itch, he was not itching just that spot he was itching all over his body. Then I called the vet an made an appt. for him on December 27. The vet did a complete examination and also did a skin scrap which came back negative. He was then placed on Temaril-P for 3 weeks because his itching was getting so bad. During that time, hair growth on the outside of his leg was noted but the inside of his leg still remained hairless, but was no longer red or getting worse. During the time on the Temaril-P his itching was none exsistent. The vet then suggested we change his food to grain-free, so he is now eating Orijen Adult Grain Free, which he loves.

After coming off of the Temiral-P, his itching returned within days. He has been on the grain free food since the 1st of the year, which is 10 weeks and the vet said that if it was a food allergy a change of some sort should be noted by 12 weeks at the lastest and so far, he is still itching excessively. Last Monday, February 7th, I took him back to the vet for a check up. While at the vet we had an allergy test done to rule out enviromental allergies, as I guess food allergy testing can't be done with accuracy. The results can take up to 2-3 weeks to come in and its been a week today. Since then, I have noticed some hair loss on the right rear leg, which is symmetrical to the hair loss on the left side. I have also noticed some slight hair thinning near his elbows (symmetrical on both sides) as well as some thinning above his eyes (again symmetrical on both sides).

I am kind of stumped on what this could be. Like I stated above, it started in early December. Does this sound like it could be allergies or do you think it could be something else? If so, what?

Mason is kept on Revolution year round for hw/flea preventitive, which also is used to treat mange/mites, but like I stated above his skin scrap came back negative.

It's just been a long and stressful 2 months for us, as I hate to hear and see him itching all the time and I don't want my dog to go insane and rip out all his own fur!! The vet gave me the option of putting him back on the Temiral-P for the time being until the allergy results come in, but I decided not to as I didn't think it would be healthy for him to be put back on it so soon and plus he is still growing and I read it can stunt growth in large breed dogs. Am I wrong?

When I first got Mason, he did have 1 bald spot on the top of his head but he was not itchy. I took him to the vet for that to but the vet said it was probably due to poor nitrition and it did clear up eventually. I don't know if this has any relation to what he has going on now.

Thoughts on any of this, are greatly appreciated. If can think of any additional things I should have the vet test for or what I should ask about/bring up...I am open to suggestings. My next step would probably be thyroid testing.

Having no answers is frustrating, but I know I have to be patient.

Here are some pictures I took this evening. In some of the pictures this fur/skin looks greasy and that is because I have been putting cream on it to help reduce the redness.


First the right side, the side that is just starting to thin out and lose hair:






Now the right side:










Sorry this is so long. If you have questions, feel free to ask!


Thanks

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 02/15/11 07:46 AM. Reason: inserted paragraph breaks

~Ashley~

Ivy's VV Marie NTD CGC

Mason Von Holley BH ETD ATD ITD NTD CL1R NJN TT TDI HIT CGC (HOT) OFA (H/E/C/L) CERF

UKC CH SG Falcon PacHaus BH AD CGCA TDI
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: GSDTrain] #133683
02/15/11 03:07 AM
02/15/11 03:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,713
NY
GSDTrain Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
GSDTrain  Offline OP
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Forgot to add: other than this he is completely healthy and acts normal.


~Ashley~

Ivy's VV Marie NTD CGC

Mason Von Holley BH ETD ATD ITD NTD CL1R NJN TT TDI HIT CGC (HOT) OFA (H/E/C/L) CERF

UKC CH SG Falcon PacHaus BH AD CGCA TDI
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: GSDTrain] #133688
02/15/11 03:10 AM
02/15/11 03:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 254
San Diego
Recon Offline
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Recon  Offline
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San Diego
I don't have an answer for you but sounds very similar to Recon's issues with his skin as well. I promise if I find something to cure my pup I will share the info with you! I know how frustrating it can be.

We just did a full blood panel to see about his immune system frown


Amanda

Recon von Haus Juris, CGC GSD- DOB 5/31/2009
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: Recon] #133717
02/15/11 07:03 AM
02/15/11 07:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Ashley, is there any heat around those knee areas?


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: MaxaLisa] #133720
02/15/11 07:45 AM
02/15/11 07:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
BowWowMeow  Offline
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Buffalo
Sorry about poor Mason! It does sound like environmental allergies to me but it looks like it's turning into a yeast infection.

What supplements do you have Mason on? Are you able to do preprepared raw to see if that might help?

Kailor has terrible skin problems and we have been seeing a holistic vet and she is doing a lot better. The vet had her on a low does of T.-P for years!


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: BowWowMeow] #133748
02/15/11 02:46 PM
02/15/11 02:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,662
McAlester, OK
Kayos Offline

Can't Figure Tech Stuff Out
Kayos  Offline

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McAlester, OK
Did your vet do the blood test or skin test for allergies? Although there is a lot of sucess with the blood test the skin test is considered the gold standard and the more definitive test. I believe you can blood test for food allergieds but again it is not very accurate. The food elimination trial is really the best method to figure out food and it is only as accurate as you are observant.

I think if I would wait on the results of the tests done already and then ask for a referral to a derm vet and take ther esults with you. They will do a very thorough history on Mason so you will need a lot of details on what has been going on with him.

Having been through this with Havoc it sounds like allergies of some kind. Even with allergy shots Havoc still occassionally gets very itchy.


Kathy

PTE,AC,URO3,AG2,UCD Xtra!Xtra! v. TeMar CDX,GN,RE,CGC,TC,HIC, Bh "Havoc" 6/4/07
PAM, URO3, UCD, UACH Tidmores Rising Star Lydia "Mayhem" CD,BN,RE,AX,AJP,OFP,P1J,CA,DN,HT,TKN,TC,CGCA 4/4/12

Lucky, Wolf, Max, Kayos - gone not forgotten. gsdhalo
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: Kayos] #133756
02/15/11 03:54 PM
02/15/11 03:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,129
Fairfield, Ca.
Schnickle Fritz Offline
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Schnickle Fritz  Offline
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Fairfield, Ca.
have you changed your laundry soap? had your carpets cleaned? put in new bark or different shavings outside? any new grass growing in your yard? it is so hard to think of things that may cause this...


Have a great day!!!
NLS

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Fritz vom Banach TR1 TT RN RA BN NW1 BH 10/10/09
Cuvee' d' la Maze ORT-BCA BH 01/14/11
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: Schnickle Fritz] #133760
02/15/11 04:05 PM
02/15/11 04:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 188
Buffalo, NY
Caja's Mom Offline
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Caja's Mom  Offline
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Buffalo, NY
I would add some sort of oil to his diet. We have had good luck with coconut oil. It is pretty easy to find in the health food stores. We like the pills the best.


Trish

SG Emir (Errow) van Klipgaarden SchH 3, AWD 1, AD, KKL 1, ONYX, CGC

SG Ziberia (Panther) v alten Wingertshaus, IPO1, AD, FD, CGC
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: Caja's Mom] #133777
02/15/11 05:17 PM
02/15/11 05:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,713
NY
GSDTrain Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
GSDTrain  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
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NY
Thanks for the thoughts everyone.
Ruth, Mason gets 1000 mg of fish oil in the AM and PM, 400iu of Vit. E in the AM and a scoop of Nupro in the AM and PM.
Its funnny you bring up the preprapared raw meals as I bought some a few weeks ago, just haven't given any to him yet..just a few pieces here and there as a treat.
As far as the yeast infection factor, he was put on Clavamox a few weeks ago just to be sure, for 7 days and nothing changed.

Nothing new has changed...no new soap or anything, no new grasses as it is all snow outside.

Kathy, his knees are warm when I touch them once in a while, if thats what you mean.

I will check back here this evening after I get home from work.


~Ashley~

Ivy's VV Marie NTD CGC

Mason Von Holley BH ETD ATD ITD NTD CL1R NJN TT TDI HIT CGC (HOT) OFA (H/E/C/L) CERF

UKC CH SG Falcon PacHaus BH AD CGCA TDI
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: GSDTrain] #133781
02/15/11 05:32 PM
02/15/11 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19,513
Northern CA
MaxaLisa Offline

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MaxaLisa  Offline

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Northern CA
Clavamox won't help with yeast.

It's an awfully odd place to start with the discoloration and loss.

Makes me think a few things.

The heat, I worry about infection, along the lines of say Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. He may or may not run a fever (what did the vet say his temp was?), but that's why I was wonder about the heat issue. Clavamox won't touch most of the tick diseases, or other types of joint infections. 7 days wouldn't have been long enough to affect lyme.

Bilateral, hind end, would think thyroid.

If those pics resulted from self-mutilation, then there might be pain, might come from the low back. A fixation in the lumbar area could cause this.

Itchiness can come from strange places - turned out Max was allergic to the cotton sheets that I used to cover his bedding.

You might try some scullcap and St John's Wort to handle the itching, might help better than drugs, but none of that will get at the itchy.

I don't like chemicals, but I had luck once using Advantix with Max once - it repels and I think he was being eaten alive by mosquitos. The last go around it did nothing, which led me to the allergy tests.

You could always try awhile of homecooked restricted and see if that makes a difference.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; 02/15/11 05:39 PM.

MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: MaxaLisa] #133818
02/15/11 07:25 PM
02/15/11 07:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 508
Nor Cal
M
mspiker03 Offline
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M
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Nor Cal
I also think a food trial (raw or homecooked) wouldn't hurt.

As a side note, I never felt the allergy shots worked for us, but the diet change did wonders.


Leyna vom Grunenfeld, HT, PT, HSAs, RLFI, HRDI
SG Paisley vom Kirschental (3/25/13), JHD, aka "the devil"
Toby vom Kirschental (3/21/14) aka TJ

RIP:Levi vom Grunenfeld-I miss you every day
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: mspiker03] #133827
02/15/11 07:44 PM
02/15/11 07:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 622
Rensselaer County, NY
DnP Offline
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Just my 2 cents, for what it is worth. I had Pheonix for nearly a year until I ran into allergy problems and he was 2 1/2 years old.

I did the VARL blood test for Phoenix's allergies. We got a good hold on what his environmental allergens were, but like Kathy said, the gold standard is skin testing with a derm. I did take Phoenix to a derm suggested by my vet, who was great in the information he gave regarding food and environmental allergies. We were set to do the skin test when I got the results from the blood testing. I wanted to give the serum a try for a few months to see if it made a difference, if not, we were going to go whole hog w/ the derm. He was fine with the wait since he didn't consider Pheonix a "bad" case...as in no skin infections or sores/hot spots.

Phoenix also has food allergies, but we didn't just have itching with it, we also had periodic vomiting and runny poo. I did an elimination diet to determine his food allergies.

I also discovered that Phoenix starting reacting to ALL chemicals I used in the house. Carpet cleaner from my Hoover shampooer, floor cleaner (Swifer wet jet, Mr. Clean, Ajax). His skin turned bright pink with little red blotches and hair loss on his rear legs and belly. Oh and the itching was constant.

I was adamant about no pred so we did the antihistamine thing to get things somewhat under control until we got the serum for his shots.

I have found that the shots work well for us, but there are periods of intense itching at the beginning of winter. However, the itching isn't anywhere near as bad as when we didn't know what his allergies were.


Diana

Bentley...the light that brought me out of the darkness.

RIP Phoenix (Brightstar rescue) 2006 - 5/6/2017
RIP Dakota 1/5/1993 - 10/23/2006
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: DnP] #133829
02/15/11 07:57 PM
02/15/11 07:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,748
Buffalo
BowWowMeow Offline
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BowWowMeow  Offline
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The rug could also be a problem. Basu was allergic to rugs...or rugs exacerbated his allergies.

The derm vet here is very conventional. I wasn't at all impressed. She thinks raw food causes all dogs to be sick and pushes that kangaroo or rabbit pulverized prescription diet for every single dog who walks through the door. Kailor went twice. Neither time did her treatment suggestions work. The holistic vet has been much more helpful.

I would stop the Nutro because it has yeast in it. I would actually stop all of the supplements (some dogs don't do well on fish oil) and start C and see if that makes any difference. Which kind of pre-prepared raw do you have?


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
Queen Cleopatra
Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: BowWowMeow] #133832
02/15/11 08:02 PM
02/15/11 08:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,203
Alabama
aubie Offline
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aubie  Offline
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Alabama
Are you feeding one type of grainfree? Chicken? Beef? Could it be a protein intolerance to chicken for example? Or have you tried different varieties?


Tiffany mom to:
Anna, GSD 9/21/08
Panzer, GSD 9/12/15
Duncan Dog RIP 2/99-10/15
Danger Kitties: Mia & Winston RIP Alley Cat 10/12, Simon 6/13
Andon two-legger
Anna's Dog Blog: www.annathegsd.blogspot.com
Re: Mason Skin Issues- Thoughts? [Re: BowWowMeow] #133835
02/15/11 08:08 PM
02/15/11 08:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 622
Rensselaer County, NY
DnP Offline
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DnP  Offline
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Ruth, good point about the rug! Sometimes it's the rug itself and sometimes it can be what is IN the rug, ie, molds, mildew, dust, dustmites. Rugs have so many chemicals in them to begin with when they are manufactured. And unless you are anal about vacuuming every day or every other day, you'd be surprised at what can be captured in the fibers from the enviroment.

I stopped the Nupro for Phoenix while doing the elimination diet. Besides the yeast, it also has flaxseed which can be an allergen for many dogs.


Diana

Bentley...the light that brought me out of the darkness.

RIP Phoenix (Brightstar rescue) 2006 - 5/6/2017
RIP Dakota 1/5/1993 - 10/23/2006
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