A few thoughts....

It certainly is possible that there was lepto from the information that you posted. There isn't a way to rule it out at this point. Lepto is treated with either penicillin or doxycycline, so if it was lepto, the right antibiotic was used.

However, there have been many times on the tick list and the forums that I have seen this exact same thing occur with anaplasmosis/ehrlichia.

I guess a factor that tips it toward lepto is the rat issue. Most of the lepto here will have increased kidney values, but from what you wrote, sometimes it can be only liver values that are the issue.

I also would question whether this doctor has any experience with anaplasmosis/ehrlichia. Many vets don't have much experience and I suspect that doctors much much less.

The rat issue....that complicates things. It sounds like one of those things that you will never know, and that is difficult And maybe you're right, having the anaplasmosa, made it impossible for him to fight possible lepto.

I just don't know Helios....

And yes, like you said many vets don't have much experience and doctors well.. much much less experience. But when the nephrologist saw the results he said that It was lepto,I won't really find out actually and neither will I base a diagnosis thanks to what the doctor said but since everything started this past saturday, when he was fetching that rat, I thot..hey..what if it was actually lepto?.

Thanks Lisa

Well. You just taught me a bunch of stuff about lepto that I didn't know, that it can present like chronic ehrlichia, including the platelets.

It's nice to have the closure of knowing why they died, but it sure doesn't take away the loneliness that they leave behind

Helios,

I am just now seeing this. So sorry for your loss.

We have a lot of rats in my neighborhood and several dogs have died, very quickly, from lepto. I agree that the combo of the two diseases would have been deadly.

Thanks bow

We went to the vet, he's done with the ancylostomas, we got rid of them

And the results this time were:

Hemoglobin...15.5 g g/dl
Hematocrit.....46.5% (37-55%)
Erythrocytes...6.63
MCH............33.3
MCV............73.2
MCHC............23.3
Leukocytes......20100/mm3
Platelets: 149.000

The differential

Segmental Neutrophis.......54% 10854
Segmental Eosinophil.... 2% 402
Segmental lymphocytes......38% 7638
Monocytes............... 6% 1206



We'll be going again the next month..

Definitely better red blood cell and platelet numbers

Still some issues with the white blood cell counts.

Has he been on doxy?


Normal values from before:
Hemoglobin...(12-18 g/dl)
Hematocrit.....(37-55%)
HCM.........(31-36%)
Leukocytes......(5.000-15.000/mm3)

Segmental Neutrophis...(3.000-11.500/mm3)
Segmental Eosinophil......(100-1.000/mm3)
Segmental Basophils ......(0-100/mm3)
Segmental lymphocytes......(1.500-5.000/mm3)
Monocytes...............(less than 2.000/mm3)
Platelets: (150.000-500.000/mm3)

No since the last time, we were planing on giving him the next month since he's having too many medicines (sp?),5 ATM, maybe I should already start giving him the doxy?

Impressive that the platelets are getting better without the doxy, but the neutrophils and lymphocytes are rising, and it looks like one is high.

Which medications is he on?

vi-sorbits
promotor (vitamin+amino acids)
proderm
Artrin
Vit C

And he finished another one not too long ago. Though the Vit C and the Arthrin (Before Arthrin I was giving him Gluco+Chondroitin from Spring Valley) is something I plan to give him daily..

We are suppose to give him those meds that I mentioned for 1 month and then do another bloodtest, though I believe that the vet isn't planning on giving him Doxy, she actually never mentioned that, I was planning on doing it after he's done with those meds

I don't understand the proderm? Is that to put on top of a sore?

The other supplements are either anti-inflammatory or joint or nutrient. They do seem to be helping his blood marrow create blood cells and platelets. However, the white blood cells are creeping up because there is nothing that is attacking the actual infection.

Is this the same vet that gave penicillin to Jessie in spite of a positive for anaplasmosa? Might be that the vet doesn't understand how serious this infection can be, or maybe you have a new strain around that is more deadly than those she is used to.

You could wait and see what happens on the next test, whether those white blood cell values are going up because the body is fighting it off, since the platelets and RBC are going up. However, if the body isn't fighting it off, then the infection is going deeper.

Is he losing any weight or muscle? Getting a skinny, thin head/skull?

Thinking some more here, can't go by lower white blood cells (neutrophils, etc) since they become depressed in the chronic disease state, have to go by the platelets and also elevation only of blood counts.

Because the chronic disease state is so difficult to treat, can completely sneak up on you, and can affect other organs like liver and heart, I would treat aggressively. I would understand maybe wanting to wait and see after the next blood test.

I would like to think that the body can fight this off, but helios is just getting past the acute stage. There is a sub-clinical and then chronic stage that comes after that in many dogs that are left untreated. That's how suddenly dogs seem fine, but then have a platelet count of something like 25 and die suddenly. It's that chronic deadly stage to keep your eye on during all steps of this process. So any dog battling this disease, particularly if not on abx, will have to have regulare lifetime monitoring of those blood counts.

THANKS Lisa.What you just said makes sense.. I didn't actually notice that,I only saw that the platelets improved. It's not the same vet though and she never mentioned anything related to what you just said so i won't really rely on that vet.

I will start treating him with doxy soon, I have to buy it first tho. I rather treat it and then see how it goes on the next test.

And he hasn't lost any weight or muscle tho he's always been "kinda" skinny since we found out he had anaplasmosis, I remember him being 70 pounds when he was 7 MO and this past Monday his weigh was 70.4 pounds (3months later)

Oh and btw the proderm we're giving him is for his skin

What is wrong with his skin? I wonder if the skin will get better once doxy is started, it's possible.

In 3 months, I would think that a young dog his age would gain some weight? Maybe something someone in the puppy forums could answer?

I notice you have a new picture in your avatar, he's a handsome boy

LOL i'll "translate" but it says it's for " keeping in perfect condition the skin and hair" it's mostly Lipotropic Polyvitaminic with Omega 6 and 3.


That's what I think too.. 3months and he never gained some weight, NOTHING.. just this past month after being treated thanks to the worms

I wonder if the worm treatment is why his eosinophils went down.

The worms could certainly prevent hi from gaining weight too. Poor boy!

Lisa just wanted to update, I've started treating helios with Doxy again, Hoping to see improvements for the next blood test . And I don't really know if it was thanks to the worm that he wasn't gaining weight but I do remember the Vet saying that and I also noticed that just after we started treating it he gained .4.

It's not like he's really skinny but yes he needs some weight

It will be very interested to see how the numbers change after being on doxy. You're doing a great job in caring for him and getting him straightened out!

Thanks lisa, You've really helped me too :)I don't think I'd be on the right track without you.

BTW, have you ever heard about an injection for Anaplasmosis? My mom told me today that our neighbor (the vet) told her that after treating with doxy it'd be good to give him XXXX(it's an injection) my mom doesn't remember the name though... (She believes it's eufa-something)