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Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #106706
11/22/10 01:13 AM
11/22/10 01:13 AM
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GrandJan Offline
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Thanks Ruth and Val - good advice. Two more questions: if a dog is given an antibiotic and/or any medication that needs to be taken with food, can we assume that a probiotic should then be added? Can it then be stopped when the meds are stopped - or perhaps given an extra week or so until the tummy gets regulated?


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: GrandJan] #106712
11/22/10 01:20 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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I kept taking probiotics after taking antibiotics for myself. I think when giving probiotics with antibiotics that we're just keeping up with what is lost but afterwards we are actually repopulating.

Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: LifeAsMe] #106717
11/22/10 01:31 AM
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One addition: give probiotics when you give any kind of dewormer. Talk about taking all of the good stuff out of the digestive tract! sick

And I agree to continue with the probiotics for a couple of weeks post meds. And be sure to give them 2 hours apart from the meds!


Ruth

Rafi, the german malaroo, age 9.5ish
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/693238

Varda & Gio (the crazy cattens)
...............
Warming my heart:
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Chama
Kai
Basu
Massie
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: BowWowMeow] #106720
11/22/10 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
One addition: give probiotics when you give any kind of dewormer. Talk about taking all of the good stuff out of the digestive tract! sick

And I agree to continue with the probiotics for a couple of weeks post meds. And be sure to give them 2 hours apart from the meds!


Thanks, Ruth - did not know that. I have your whole post now in my reference notes.


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: GrandJan] #106725
11/22/10 01:43 AM
11/22/10 01:43 AM
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Wisc.Tiger_Val Offline
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If I can I go 4 hours between ABX and Probiotics.


Val da Tiger

Fuzzybutt the cat.
Neilla the Big White puppy.

RIP Cheyenne - AKA: Digger, CheyChey Girl, Cheyenne Large and In charge. 2/16/02 - 2/27/16
RIP Raya - AKA: Raz-a, Ray a Sunshine, RayBestos, the little one, Silly Girl. 9/21/05 - 6/27/14
RIP Lakota - AKA: Bubba, Big Boy, BooBoo (the other part of the Binky and BooBoo team). 1/19/03-9/19/2011
RIP DeeDee - AKA: DD Poo, Little Bit, Binky (part of the Binky and Booboo team) 6/23/02-6/20/11
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: Wisc.Tiger_Val] #106727
11/22/10 01:48 AM
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Probiotics are all natural, correct? I take one (yes, I'm getting older and my tummy is failing me frown ), so if the need arises, I can give the same one to my dogs?


Jan - Mom to:

Beau & Chance - German/Anatolian Shepherds
Bailey - Labrador Granddog
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: GrandJan] #106730
11/22/10 01:56 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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I'm assuming it should be 2-4 hours between probiotics and all meds?

And back to the original question - Do they need to be "stabilized" or "coated"? Is there a difference between the two?

I ask because one article I read said that if they needed to be refrigerated then they wouldn't survive the heat in our bodies. I don't know how true that is because I had to keep mine in the refrigerator and I know they were helping me.

Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: LifeAsMe] #106738
11/22/10 02:31 AM
11/22/10 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
Banshee isn't on an antibiotic. She does take tagamet which reduces the stomach acid. The theory was this could be messing with her balance and causing some other problems. So it's possible that probiotics are needed for other meds than just antibiotics?


I actually may have this backwards now that I think more carefully about it.

Stomach acid is important to help eliminate bad bacteria. So a drug that reduces stomach acid, will favor the growth of any bad bacteria. If you look up proton pump inhibitors, stronger versions of the H2 antagonists such as tagamet, you'll see that they are starting to link the use of the PPI's with the very serious infection of Clostridium difficile in people. This infection can be deadly, can also cause some people to have their entire colon be removed.

Therefore, probiotics when taking any kind of stomach acid reducer, will help nurture the good bacteria and reduce the chance of the bad bacteria taking over.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: MaxaLisa] #106740
11/22/10 02:34 AM
11/22/10 02:34 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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that's pretty interesting. I think I need to look into her tagamet/thyroid med interaction also.

http://www.mythyroid.com/drugs.html

Quote:
Patients with a specific type of coexisting stomach inflammation (atrophic gastritis) who have reduced gastric acid secretion may exhibit modest impairment in the absorption of thyroid hormone, resulting in increase requirements for thyroxine. Conversely, treatment of H. Pylori in some patients may improve thyroxine absorption, leading to increased levels of circulating t4 and potentially a need for reduction in the dose of thyroxine. These findings imply that a certain level of gastric acid production is required for optimal absorption of thyroid hormone. Furthermore, institution of therapy for gastritis with proton pump inhibitors is frequently associated with a rise in levels of TSH-see Effect of proton pump inhibitors on serum thyroid-stimulating hormone level in euthyroid patients treated with levothyroxine for hypothyroidism. Endocr Pract. 2007 Jul-Aug;13(4):345-9.

Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: LifeAsMe] #106747
11/22/10 02:42 AM
11/22/10 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
And back to the original question - Do they need to be "stabilized" or "coated"? Is there a difference between the two?


I may be wrong cuz I'm kinda making this up, but I think that stabilized may mean that it doesn't need to be refrigerated. There are coated probiotics that are refrigerated, but supposedly coated so that they survive the stomach acid and are released in the intestines.

I really don't know what works the best and what doesn't. What I do know is that it is variable, even between dogs on this board!

With Max, I use Primal Defense from www.iherb.com : http://www.gardenoflife.com/ProductsforL...38/Default.aspx and also Philips Colon Health from Costco: http://phillipsrelief.com/products/colon-health-probiotic-caps I try to remember to take one of the Phillip's ones too, and they do work.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: LifeAsMe] #106748
11/22/10 02:44 AM
11/22/10 02:44 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
that's pretty interesting. I think I need to look into her tagamet/thyroid med interaction also.

http://www.mythyroid.com/drugs.html

Quote:
Patients with a specific type of coexisting stomach inflammation (atrophic gastritis) who have reduced gastric acid secretion may exhibit modest impairment in the absorption of thyroid hormone, resulting in increase requirements for thyroxine. Conversely, treatment of H. Pylori in some patients may improve thyroxine absorption, leading to increased levels of circulating t4 and potentially a need for reduction in the dose of thyroxine. These findings imply that a certain level of gastric acid production is required for optimal absorption of thyroid hormone. Furthermore, institution of therapy for gastritis with proton pump inhibitors is frequently associated with a rise in levels of TSH-see Effect of proton pump inhibitors on serum thyroid-stimulating hormone level in euthyroid patients treated with levothyroxine for hypothyroidism. Endocr Pract. 2007 Jul-Aug;13(4):345-9.


Interesting.

They did find recently that taking coffee with thyroid meds may cause a problem, but I don't think that Banshee is a coffee drinker wink


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: GrandJan] #106749
11/22/10 02:45 AM
11/22/10 02:45 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: GrandJan
Probiotics are all natural, correct? I take one (yes, I'm getting older and my tummy is failing me frown ), so if the need arises, I can give the same one to my dogs?


Yes, you can give the same to your dogs smile

I don't know if they have synthetic probiotics???


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
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Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: MaxaLisa] #106750
11/22/10 02:45 AM
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LifeAsMe Offline OP
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That makes sense Lisa! I know the ones I took worked well for me and they had to be refrigerated.

http://naturessunshine.wordpress.com/2006/03/30/probiotic-eleven/

Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: MaxaLisa] #106765
11/22/10 03:20 AM
11/22/10 03:20 AM
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MaxaLisa Offline

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Originally Posted By: MaxaLisa
...I think that stabilized may mean that it doesn't need to be refrigerated. There are coated probiotics that are refrigerated, but supposedly coated so that they survive the stomach acid and are released in the intestines.


The key words on the coating are "enteric coating", and they may or may not be refrigerated. I don't know if stabilized probiotics have the same action.


MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
Re: Probiotics - Coated or Stabilized? [Re: LifeAsMe] #106802
11/22/10 04:17 AM
11/22/10 04:17 AM
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Woodreb Offline
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Originally Posted By: LifeAsMe
And back to the original question - Do they need to be "stabilized" or "coated"? Is there a difference between the two?

I ask because one article I read said that if they needed to be refrigerated then they wouldn't survive the heat in our bodies. I don't know how true that is because I had to keep mine in the refrigerator and I know they were helping me.


Have you seen this article?

http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/can-acidophilus-be-stabilized-553592.html

It talks about the reasons for stabilizing, but is vague on exactly what stabilizing (as a process) means. A coating, such as an enteric coating, is usually put on a tablet to help protect against moisture and air (oxygen). But I don't think that the coating would offer much, if any, protection against heat.

Based on this, I am going to speculate that stabilized, especially as a way to retard the sensitivity to heat, is different than a coated dosage form, which is probably trying to add protection to the product against air and moisture.

And what I got from that article is that even if a probiotic is stabilized you should still refrigerate to protect from heat until you are going to use it.


Johanna

Caleb (aka Caleb-Moose)
Ciara(aka Ciara Belle, Black Devil)

RIP Aodhán, Rica, Max, Kelly - gone but never forgotten - forever in my heart
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