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#51731 - 06/09/10 02:45 AM Swollen Hock
Heather Offline
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Registered: 06/09/10
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I noticed that one of my dogs has a swollen hock. He is not limping or favoring this leg at all. Eating, drinking, urination, and defecation are all normal. Activity level is normal consider it's in the 100s the last couple of days. He has a known history of sludge in his gall bladder which is being treating with ursodial and other liver support supplements. He is currently on a Rx liver diet. His energy level is also normal. In January, all blood work (cbc, chemistries) looked great.

I took him to his regular vet tonight. His hock is moving freely. She drained it and looked at a sample under the microscope. The sample taken was primarily blood with a couple bacterial and white blood cells in every field. Her first suggestion is to run a tick born panel. This will be done tomorrow morning along with cbc, chemistries and valley fever titer. The blood will be going to Protatek. She also recommended sending the sample out for cytology and culture. While we wait for the lab work, he will start doxycycline. Depending upon the results and/or Travis' symptoms, I may or may not sent out a sample for cytology and culture.

Just wondering if any one has had a similar experience or another other suggestions??

Thanks!!

Heather
Chandler, AZ

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#51732 - 06/09/10 02:51 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: Heather]
DianaB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 1319
Loc: N. CA
Likes: 5
I do not have any advice but I'll bet MaxaLisa can help. Hope it is not serious.
_________________________
Diana - owned by Siena Rose (Oct 29, 2006 'Kiena vom Nadelhaus')
http://www.dogster.com/dogs/476646

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#51734 - 06/09/10 03:07 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: DianaB]
3K9Mom Offline
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Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 456
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I'd send it out. He may have simply nicked himself or been bit by a spider, ant or other creepy crawly, and not even a tick, and that tiny bite or nick got infected in the dust and dirt. But we want to know for sure. The labwork will tell us what's there and more important the culture will tell us -- if we opt to throw antibiotics at the infection -- which ones would be most effective. Instead of tossing darts at wall, we know EXACTLY which antibiotics the bacteria are sensitive to.

Starting with doxy is a good idea. But that's a broad-spectrum antibiotic (it's like dropping a bomb). We'd prefer to use a narrow-spectrum antibiotic that is created to kill off certain specific bacteria (it's like using a scalpel). This prevents building up antibiotic resistance and allows us to save the broad spectrum "big guns" for if (hopefully never, but we can't be sure) our dogs need them.

Sending out for C&S always seems like a pain... like it's money I'd prefer not to spend... but I'm almost always glad I did. A FEW times in the long lives of my many dogs, the labwork came back with a negative result, but that doesn't seem like it will be the case for you. There is something there. If we know what it is, we know how to best attack it. If this were my dog, I'd do it.

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#51744 - 06/09/10 04:58 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: 3K9Mom]
MaxaLisa Offline

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Registered: 01/26/10
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It sounds like you and your vet have things under control. I will be *very* interested to hear the results!

Looking for critters can be tough, so pretty cool that your vet was able to see bacteria in there. I would send it out too. It's one of those things that if you don't do it now, very likely will regret it later. There could be coinfections and you could get the different tests giving you different pieces of information.

I too would start on doxy, from the sounds of what you have surrounding you (ticks, etc). Of course valley fever puts you in another ball park.
My boy has an issue with a paw that swells. It affected the bone and he lost a dew claw to it. It still has swelling occasionally - biopsy only found reactive bone and other immune cells, they couldn't find any foreign organisms. He is rather unwell when not on doxy.


I am a bit curious how the gallbladder was diagnosed?

I don't remember what's on the standard Protatek panel, but I think that RMSF is? That certainly should be suspect too. You may know this, but do check the red blood cell count to see if it's at the lower end of the range, or similarly with the platelets. That can happen in a few tick diseases. Seems the white blood cell counts can have just about any pattern.

What are you using for liver support?
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#51745 - 06/09/10 04:59 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 17809
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 205
P.S. welcome
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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#51749 - 06/09/10 06:28 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: MaxaLisa]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 17809
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 205
P.p.s since your vet is sending to Protatek, she is probably aware of this, but I'll mention it anyway.

In many places, the tick panel plus a couple of tick add-ons are recommended. For example, I think it's anaplasmosa that isn't on the pnel, but is prevalent, so recommended that it's added on. Your vet may know which are the best to add on in the are, but on the tick list we've always found that you can call Dr. Holland at Protatek and she is extremely helpful in answering any and all questions.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

Top Likes: 0 
#51802 - 06/09/10 10:19 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: 3K9Mom]
Heather Offline
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Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4
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3K9MOM--Thanks for you reply. I'm always gun shy about sending out an C&S. The several times I've done it, they have always come back negative. This particular vet is super expensive. I will definately send out a sample if the bloodwork indicates or if symptoms are getting worse.

Heather
Chandler, AZ

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#51808 - 06/09/10 10:32 AM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: Heather]
Heather Offline
New Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4
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LisaT,

Thanks for the welcome!!

My vets (general practice and internal medicine) are pretty good. The Protatek TBD panel does include RMSF. Anaplasmosis is not included. I will talk to the vet about including the Anaplasmosis....was thinking about it before bed. I'm pretty lucky I live 3 miles from Protatek so I just hand deliver it.

The doxy dosage is a low--about 3 mg/lb. I'm gonna ask her about increasing it.

The Gall Bladder Issue---Took the dog in for a dental. Pre-surgical bloodwork revealed all the liver values were high. So instead of a dental, he got an abdominal ultrsound revealing 'sludge' in his gall bladder. Surgery to remove it was estimated to be $4500. Fortunately, he is doing very well with meds, supplements and diet. The liver support meds include milk thistle, sam-e, vit c and e and vit b complex. I just have bloodwork done twice a year and annual ultrsound.

If you have any other thoughts, let me know.

Thanks for replying!! I will keep you posted.

Heather
Chandler, AZ

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#51849 - 06/09/10 12:08 PM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: Heather]
Barb E Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 2042
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Likes: 123
Been there - it was a $$ road with no answers. I had let it go for a couple of weeks before starting the vet care, he had the same thing 3 years prior that had resolved on it's own, or perhaps with anti-inflamitory within a week and a half. I wonder what 2011 will bring for Dante's left hind...

Puffy left Hind - Possible bone chip $518.42
$52.00 Office Visit
$153.75 Total body function (blood and urine)
$180.75 X-rays
$106.84 Clavamox-250 mg (Antibiotic)
$25.08 Rimadyl-75mg (Anti-inflamtory)


Puffy left Hind - Infection/Neoplasia? Needle Aspiration $268.45
$42.00 Office Visit
$151.95 Cytology
$74.50 Intramuscular Anesthesia


Puffy left Hind - MRI $2,120.00
$1,445.00 MRI including Anesthesia
$165.00 Gadolinium Administration (dye)
$510.00 3 Additional Series

This is the best I could do on the photo's, just doesn't show how fat it really was!
The day of the MRI


This is what it looked like two days after the MRI - spontaneous resoloution rofl



I did ask Sir Dante if he was going to spontaneously heal from something to do it before the expensive test rofl

I now lean to a lymph issue, that was the road we were going to head down next when it suddenly started to improve. I actually called the folks that did the MRI place to see if they had moved Dante's leg in some manner that might have caused the resolution, though they said no I think they did and just don't realize it. Dante's was obviously fluidy, rolley type swelling and not a hard mass swelling (Like when you sprain an ankle)
_________________________
Dante - March 8, 2004
Kaos von Wolfstraum - Oct 31, 2011
"Move towards the things you want and not away from the things you don't"
~ Dr G ~
peacesign

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#51894 - 06/09/10 02:03 PM Re: Swollen Hock [Re: Barb E]
MaxaLisa Offline

Global Moderator

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 17809
Loc: Northern CA
Likes: 205
Weird Barb! Dante needs to work on his timing wink

Heather, thanks for the info on the gallbladder.

If the milk thistle and Sam-e ever stop working well, we have a liver support product that is used on the tick list which seems to work very well.
_________________________
MaxaL (aka LisaT)

Jazmine, mini-mix, 10/18/2011
Max-n-Indy
Max, 5/2001-2/2012, RIP my partner, my Regal Boy
Indy, 5/1997-10/2010, RIP my friend, my teacher

Health Index
K9 TBD info and Tick List Links
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

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