I have a question that has puzzled me for some time.

Why do people say they have therapy dogs when really they just passed a test but don't work? My feeling is that your dog is a therapy dog and together you are a therapy team when the two of you partner to do volunteer work. Otherwise, what is the point?

You can probably tell this is a pet peeve of mine - most likely since I am very active in AAT with my dogs.

And I wonder - do most of the people with non-working therapy dogs just take a test, not go to classes? Is that why it is not taken seriously? I don't mean classes to learn to pass the test, I mean classes to learn how to correctly evaluate the dog over a course of time and learn the correct ways to visit.

I see this posted often - "I am going to put a 'TDI' title on my dog' or a 'CGC and TDI on my dog next' with no mention of actually wanting to volunteer. Or 'my dog passed the therapy dog test, but we don't go anyplace.'

Seriously, why? I wonder if they know that if they do not work, the 'title' is no longer valid and they should not claim to be a therapy team? It is not something that is forever with the 'title' being the actual goal.


There are so many people and dogs here out volunteering in their community. That is a huge commitment of time, gas and caring. I applaud each of you.

For those with a 'title' and no work, could you help me understand why you did it?

Thank you.

I can't speak for anyone in particular but I think they view it like a next step up from the CGC. An additional "proof that my dog is stable and a positive member of society."

I completely understand your feelings on the matter, though. Why bother certifying your dog as a therapy dog if they're not going to do therapy work? It does seem rather silly. Or perhaps people are confused and think, if their dog is a therapy dog, they can get public access. That's not true but there are a lot of people who think that way.

Jamie, it is possible that is what some folks think.

AAT done right is far from just a step above a CGC, but that is how I read it sometimes, too. That is sure not the intended purpose.

Sometimes it appears to be bragging rights, with no intention of using it for it's true purpose of giving back to the community.

We have had people ask in the first class about the whole 'access' thing. They are sadly disappointed and don't return for the second class.

I am often asked by clients if my dogs are service dogs and I am quick to politely set them straight on that. To me, service dogs are among the heroes. I love my dogs, but they are only allowed to sniff the base of the service dog's rightful pedestal.

And I know there are many people who used to volunteer and don't any longer. Life happens, dogs get older, families have needs. I understand that, but they did work at one time.

It is only those who don't give anything that upset me.

I see where you are coming from.
Mason took and passed the TDI test, and we do go out and visit and volunteer. I like to volunteer and Mason does too.
Ivy, on the otherhand, I could have had her go take the test, but never did as I had no plans of volunteering with her.

Like Jamie said, I think some people think that when their dog is a therapy dog, they have access to public places.

I can also see where people would be coming from, using it as the next step up from
CGC.

I asked in my classes what people were going to do - a lot had already started the registration process with a place to go to. One was hoping that they would be able to do visits, but were doing it to work more with the dog in a different class setting, and another was doing it for breeding "title". I tell people when they are looking at breeders that feature that, ask where the dog visits. No big deal if the breeder is getting it as one more accomplishment with their dog, big deal if they are claiming it as something big when it's never been proven beyond the test.

Ava, Bruno and I have retired from it. It was a combo of things - time, energy, my realization that being in a hospital with sick people wasn't the best for me, and then they seemed to burn out. So I make them do home visits, and Bruno takes the cats to the vet.

Khana was (now expired) registered through Delta Society, but after registration we didn't really do much of anything. I still list that she was a therapy dog, however, because I want to encourage others in the Chow world to consider doing this type of thing with their dogs. And it points toward her being temperamentally sound, which is valid in her case. She's an extremely sociable and friendly girl.

Why didn't I actually do volunteer work after Khana took the class and passed the test? Well, up until then ALL of my dogs had done volunteer work with me. Dating clear back to Dawson (born 1988), they all went to schools or nursing homes, Boys and Girls club, etc. This was done without any sort of certification or registration with a therapy group. We just enjoyed doing it, and when we started visiting the nursing home I also booked my piano students in there on a regular basis to entertain the residents. I didn't know of ANYONE in my area doing anything similar with their dogs. And then someone brought down the Delta Society people from Anchorage to start doing classes and tests.

I finally took Khana through a class and got her official registration, paid all the money for the silly little photo card and all that. But we had no place in this area that accepted Delta certified dog teams, so it actually put a dent in our freedom instead of making things better. We would have had to travel all the way to Anchorage (150 miles) to do anything under the Delta Society name. I had taken Khana to the nursing home a few times but then they started cracking down on their requirements too. I filled out their forms, took in the rabies vaccination certificate, etc. but things just got less easy. I used to drop in when I could, and now they wanted advance notice.

They still offer Delta Society testing here and I think they've gotten the okay at the hospital to allow DSPP access there. But in all honesty, I didn't see any reason to continue with it. It's expensive, especially when you have limited funds. It kind of puts a barrier up with other places that aren't DS accessible. And when DS chose to regulate what we could feed our own dogs - well, that put an end to any involvement I would have with that group anyway.

Khana and I still went places, and still do at times. There are certain stores we visit that expect me to bring Khana in for the employees to pet! *LOL* She's been going to the UPS store since she was a tiny puppy, and they saw her grow. And I always kind of considered her visits to various people in stores as a type of therapy, as I could see people getting a break from the tedium of their jobs when they crouched down and visited with Khana a bit. And now Khana helps relax all the people at the Annie musical rehearsals. Even the director stops and pets her a bit, and walks away with a smile. I think that's valid therapy work! *L*

Anyhow .. even though she is not longer current on her registration as a therapy dog, I still list that she has been registered in the past. It's one of her achievements. We both put in the time to learn obedience, to socialize, to figure out that wheelchairs and crutches and yelling people are not to be scared of. I think listing the "title" (although I don't really consider it a title, even in active therapy dogs) is as valid as listing obedience titles. I'm not still doing obedience with her, per se, but it doesn't negate the title she's already earned.

I can understand being irritated by people who parade a therapy dog title as some grand accomplishments but who have never done any therapy visits with their dogs. I'm guessing that they do the testing as a temperament test, in a way - which it is, really. For some people, passing a test like this with their dogs is a huge accomplishment, because they don't do much with their dogs and are amazed to even see them do something as simple as pass a CGC test. I found the DS testing person to be extremely lax with what they allowed in the test, and dogs passed that had NO right being a therapy dog. It doesn't seem right that a dog can pass a single test and then be registered as a therapy dog, since their behavior for 20-30 minutes on one single day doesn't truly represent their real self. Heck, even for an obedience title you have to qualify three different times! You would think being a therapy dog would be MORE important.

Sorry, I'm babbling now .. *L* .. I don't know if I'd bother getting a therapy dog registration again if I decided to get back into the real therapy dog stuff. I know that having the insurance is a wise move, but I always figured that having your dog well-trained and well-socialized, and KNOWING your dog's strengths and weaknesses, helped avoid problems that you would need insurance to cover. In all the years I went to schools and nursing homes, I never had a single incident with any of my dogs.

Maybe if the therapy titles were withheld (on a "probation period" maybe?) until a certain number of visits were logged, there would be fewer bogus registrations.

Melanie and the girls

I may overly upset since I don't use Delta, TDI, TDI, Inc or other registering groups. Our training is much more intense than a CGC (which I also have on my dogs.) But I always hear, "it's just a cgc with a wheelchair." That couldn't be more wrong with the testing we went through.

As for expense, you are correct - the registering groups are making a killing with their ongoing fees. After paying for the 10 weeks of classes, we don't charge anything in our program and cover the animals (cats, dogs, rabbits, rats, horses) as long as they are working and submitting their hours, no matter how many years. (and if a team dog retires the handler can bring another dog for free.)

If the animal does not work, they are notified that they will no be longer certified or covered for insurance unless they retest (which also does not cost anything.)

We do all we can to keep our dogs working. But I understand that Delta, TDI etc are all that is available in a lot of areas. I am very fortunate to be in the position I am with more choices. My first therapy dog, Solo, was registered with Delta.

When I retired (due to a change in my circumstances) her I know longer called her a therapy dog. Luckily, I later got back into it, tested her again and she was able to do reading programs for awhile, a love of hers.

I agree, I don't consider it a title either. I consider it an 'identifier; of tested, working dogs.

Thanks for the responses. Some I understand and some I just don't get, but you are all giving me the information I was curious to find.

Bonnie, I took the Delta test with Molly's litter mate Keisha and we were certified.

A few things have stopped me(us) from actually visiting.

I went to the nursing home where I was to be placed (without Keisha) and had an introductory visit with the existing dog team. I was so excited and could not wait to actually start!

Well then I get an phone call from the same volunteer saying they no longer needed me. The whole thing was a bit odd to be honest and the Delta co-coordinator never kept in touch with me. Which was disappointing to say the least.

Then Kylie (Keisha's mum) was in the US for 3 months and Keisha became super reactive (worse than Molly). So even if they could have found a placement, she wasn't ready.

Then a couple of weeks ago (I have heard nothing for probably 6 months) the same volunteer rings me and said he is going on holiday do I want to fill in? Oh and can I look after his dogs for a few weeks???? What the?

I've met him once for an hour and a half.....

So sorry this was so long and rambling (my style!) but that is why I am not visiting, Delta totally mucking me around (unprofessional in my opinion) and then the dog not suitable

Bianca, your intentions were to volunteer. I understand about things happening and if the program let you down, that's beyond your control. I wish it had been a better experience for you. I remember how excited you were when you took the test.

I am more wondering about those who never intend to work. I have heard some reasons for that - just was trying to understand them.

I am looking to take the test with Eden soon. I have asked to take the classes beforehand and then the test. I do look at it as a temperament test and an accomplishment if (when) she passes. I am interested in doing the programs that involve reading to children but if it is too difficult to maintain/get into, then I will be satisfied that she *can* do it and move on. She's spayed so I'm not breeding her and no one cares what "titles" she has but me and that is one accomplishment I would like her to have.

I personally don't see any problem with pet people or whatever taking the time to train their dogs to pass the test. The people I know that have trained through the organization I am in contact with work at it with their dogs and they are really nice. They have encouraged me to do the same with Eden and think she will be good at it.

Added to that, I rent, so when I move, I want to be able to say that she is stable/safe around all sorts of things - including medical equipment or people with infirmities. The simplest/easiest way to "prove" that is to have a certificate of a test that states such in simple terms.

I can see everyone point here.I think Therapy dogs do wonderful things for children in hospitals, nursing homes, etc.. I hear alot of people though get all kinds of pets as Therapy animals just so they can take them places with them. But South Carolina only allows Service dogs to be taken any place other than a hospital, nursing home ect.. Therapy animals here have to have permission to be brought on any public property.Most here do it so they can keep their pet in places renters dont allow. My middle son has PTSD, ADHD and autism which he has been prescribed a service dog for and is considered disabled by the state. But properly trained dogs are very expensive. Saying that a dog does not have to be licenced here in SC to be considered a service dog though. The service dog laws just state that they have to be trained by anyone including yourself to help the disabled persons in the things they cant do daily by themselves.

Yes - I am not trying to mix therapy dogs and service dogs here. I think most here are knowledgeable of the huge difference as I posted early on.

People do what they do - I won't change anyone's mind I am sure. To me this is for people wanting to do a specific thing (volunteer with their companion) and not as just as snapshot for temperament. The AKC has enough mini tests for that with Star, CGC etc.

I know when someone says to me "I have a therapy dog" my first question is 'where do you volunteer.' If they don't I just smile and 'that's great' and move on. To me it's the difference between a dog that passed a therapy animal test and a dog that actually works as a therapy animal.

Thanks, everyone!

Bonnie,
You know I agree with your feelings on this matter, as you and I have had this conversation before.

I have been visiting with my dogs for many years. Many years ago it was almost unheard of to go take a therapy dog test if you had no plans on becoming an active therapy dog team. Now days, it's almost expected of people. Before I started with my first dog I had no clue what it took, but I was sure I would never have a dog capable of doing therapy visits. Then one day I happened to be reading a book at the library about therapy dogs when the librarian was telling me she knew someone here that could help me get started. That's all it took. Several months later my aussie and I were making our first visits, I was hooked.

When I hear people compare the TDI test to the CGC except with a wheelchair, I get disappointed. Like you Bonnie, we here, are lucky to also have a group that is much more thorough in testing and taking classes. We have to know all the hippa laws, and much more. Our tests are also not given in the same place classes were taken.
There is so much more in doing visits as a team then just having a dog that likes to be petted, walks nice on a leash, and doesn't bite or startle much. So much can happen, and very quickly at a hospital, nursing home, library, school, etc. For instance, strangers grabbing and blowing in your dogs face, trying to give your dogs pills, (yes it happens), not to mention some of the odors that can upset your dog, or cause your dog to want to sniff in the most inappropriate places.

We also cannot just drop in unannounced to visit. All visits are scheduled well in advance with the activity directors where we will be visiting.

I can understand some of the responses here, but I also feel the TDI test is just a snapshot in temperament at that moment.

Interesting responses.

I think that's true of ANY temperament test (with the possible exception of the ATTS test). I don't know if they do it, but I think they should require re-testing every 2 years. Especially with TDI or Delta certifications.

I agree Jamie.

They do not require retesting, which brings me to another opinion. I have always felt dogs should be adults before they can be tested. Many dogs can and will pass the test at 1 yr or earlier, but once they reach adulthood, some can't.

I agree with you there as well, Tammy. For both the CGC and the TDI/Delta tests. For some dogs, it's easy to pass a temperament/obedience test as a young dog but, then they mature and are not the well-rounded citizens their 'title' designation would have you believe.

I know, in my own dog, that Risa is not the same dog she was when she earned her CGC. In fact, even though she passed, she still wasn't exactly what I would consider a good example of what a CGC dog should be (she was still obviously dog-reactive for one). Even the CGC should be required to be redone every couple years, IMHO. But most certainly a therapy dog test considering what's potentially at stake with those certified dogs.

I was kind of the opposite. I didn't do the test just to get the title, I fully intended to do therapy work with Kenya. We took classes with the local therapy group (this was in addition to extensive obedience classes and passing multiple CGCs, plus my dog was 3.5 yrs when I got her). Our therapy classes touched on all different kinds of therapy, we went to various places in town to train. They helped you assess the dog and decide what type of therapy work to do. Kenya did all the training very well but the more we trained the more I realized she just doesn't *like* being around other people. She is very obedience and controlled and can do all the tricks and behaviors but after we passed the CGC, the therapy group's eval, and the TDI I decided it just wasn't for her. She didn't seem to gain anything by it or relish going to meet people. Now, the only dog I have that I think would truly enjoy therapy work is Coke and unfortunately he doesn't have the level of obedience or control required. He gets *really* wiggly and is very big and knocks people over!

Kenya's TDI test was not like a CGC. We had to heel around/over food on the floor, I had to leave her in a down with a kid hanging on her and reading to her while I left out of sight for several minutes, they did all kinds of stuff with medical equipment, we did several passes heeling with other new/strange dogs.

I have no intention of doing therapy dog tests with Nikon or Pan. Like I said, if my husband had the time to commit to Coke's training, Coke would LOVE to be a therapy dog but I don't see that happening as my husband is already starting his masters and does lots of special ed/LD work without the dog.

What do you guys think about the new AKC therapy dog titles? I was thrilled when that came out. Even though we had to take a different course than therapy I am happy there are now titles that recognize active therapy teams.

Liesje;

Exactly! You intended to do therapy work, but the training and your dog led you to understand it was not in the best interests of you for your dog.

And that is exactly what more thorough observation (and realistic handlers) should help to determine.

It is disappointing to want to do therapy work and find out it is just not the dog's thing. Or that we really, really want to do a reading program, but our dog is just to bored with such a quiet event.

I bet Kenya had other, more interesting things she wanted to do.

I'll be honest, I know nothing about the AKC therapy dog program - I'll have to take a look. It sounds interesting, I am with an independent group which is very nice. We accept titers, don't mind raw fed dogs (don't tell Delta if there is on in your house or you are out,) allow or restrict the use of treats depending on how the individual dog takes them and allow off leash work under set guidelines. And we work with each team to help find the best type of work. (Like your experience and the best way to go.)


Someone mentioned testing every 2 years - a good idea. We do not do that, but we are in close contact with our teams and the facilities where they visit. That helps us see any changes, good or bad. I wish we could, but we only retest if the dog does not work and the team wants to start back up.


(about it being a snapshot) I agree, Jamie. That is why it is important to be in a program such as Lesje outlined and Tammy and I mentioned. You need to be able to observe the teams for several weeks and under several types if situations and role playing.

The test should be a last chance to see how they react to the world around them and advise on anything that needs mentioning. Or to reinforce that more maturity and/or training are needed before the team an work. (Sometimes it is the person, not the dog.)

Tammy - good post. I had forgotten we had discussed this before. Yes - it is disappointing how good training and testing are perceived. Kind of like dissing what we have done and do every week.

Not saying it is meant that way, but still feels the same.

Of course, it is not about us, right? It is about working with our dogs and hearing how they are helping.

I think the best compliment we have received was from mental health. They said the mood on the ward lightens and is more productive for as much as three days after the therapy group meets. Woo Hoo! That's what I'm talking about!

Exactly. I was really disappointed at the time (that's part of the reason I sought out a mature, adult dog with good manners and a calm temperament) but I know it was the right decision. It just was not her thing. There were a few incidents later on that proved to me she's really not all that into kids, so in hindsight I'm glad I didn't push her into the Ruff Reader program (that's where the therapy group wanted us).

On the flip side, I see a lot of people deciding *they* want to do therapy work, then getting a dog that is clearly not cut out for it or a dog that they really can't safely handle. There were several dogs in Kenya's program that not only didn't have the right level of obedience, no manners, not very calm temperaments but were sometimes just dangerous (one 150lb Leonberger lunged at Kenya). It really has to be about the DOG. Of all the dogs I know personally, Falon's dog Eden is the one that screams THERAPY DOG. She's just pure joy, she loves everyone and everyone loves her.

I am in contact with the group that Lies and Kenya originally did therapy classes/training with. It looks like we'll be entered in the April therapy classes. I like kids a lot, and I *love* to read and share that love with others - and Eden LOVES children and attention and being affectionate so I think it will be a good fit. I'm actually pretty excited. I tried to do this with my Lab when he was around 2 and he couldn't give a hoot about other people - I mean, he's friendly and all but they want to pet him and he wants to gaze at me in adoration LOL Or sleep, he's a BIG sleeper. 5 dogs later I finally have a dog with the temperament that can do it!

Eden doesn't scream therapy dog. IKE SCREAMS THERAPY DOG. Actually Ike would be more of a screaming therapy dog. Is there any demand out there for that?

Seriously though, I can't wait to for Eden to get her certification. She is going to be so great at it. Well, she is pretty much fantastic at anything she puts her corgi mind to do ...

My application asks if my dog is/has ever been raw fed - why are they asking that?

Because Delta won't certify raw fed dogs and/or dogs who live in the same household as a raw fed dog. They're unjustly paranoid about bacteria and illnesses being transferred from raw fed dogs to patients/people. So that might be why.

I plan on doing TDI I think - but I don't know for sure and Eden is occasionally given raw but Ikie is fed raw most of the time. Do I say that or lie? I am a tad annoyed that my dog's ability to be a therapy dog is partially judged on what she eats...

If you want to take her to the children's hospital I think they only accept Delta. I guess if it were me I'd lie unless I was really opposed on principle!

I honestly think though, if you are dealing with immunocompromised people, any little thing can send them over the edge. Someone getting cancer treatment, with AIDS, on high doses of steroids, who has a MRSA, or who is a kid or elderly, etc, really, truly can't tolerate things so I think they are going with a better safe than sorry idea.

Oh! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18811908

I am sure that people are going to point out that kibble has had salmonella (because there have been recalls for it) but it seems that raw meat might have it more consistently.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/science/progress_report_salmonella_testing/index.asp

I know, I know, vets, what do they know! http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-dept/small-animal-dept/raw-diets-linked-to-salmonella.aspx

Info on raw meat - e.coli, etc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_meat

I hope Delta also says no to pigs ears and rawhide.

Former Delta partner arguing against everything above: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_7/features/Raw-Fed-Dogs_20025-1.html

So I don't know. But I do know if an application asked for information, I would just tell them. If it had an app fee, and I wasn't in compliance with their rules, I wouldn't bother sending it in (or would call and discuss with someone if I really wanted to work with that group). If it's free, I'd tell them the truth and let them decide.

I would not lie on any app (I was not being serious when I said not to tell delta - it was tongue in cheek, but I should not have said that.)

I don't agree with the raw discrimination but if it is in the rules and Delta is insuring you, you have to be truthful.

Larger (National) organizations tend to write all inclusive rules because they register so many teams. They cannot as easily monitor and approve of where or how each team works.

If not for those national organizations, many people would not even have a chance to volunteer with their dog.



I not only agree with this, but wish no one would give their dogs rawhide or pig ears, or hooves. Talk about bacteria over drive, not to mention choke hazards. Too many other good things for treats.

Some of those rules and the reasons for them - good and bad might be another good topic.

With our smaller group, (300+ active teams) it is easier to research and determine the requirements for us to certify our teams. Some mirror the registering requirements of the large groups and some do not. Our insurance carrier is happy with all our checks and balances as are the facilities we visit.

But if we found one of our teams lied to us about something, it would be a big issue. Safety for all is our first and main concern - for the client, the facility, the animal and the handlers.

Obviously, Delta feels raw meat is a safety issue. Our advisers feel differently.

So - I am off with my dog to work off leash in a group setting in Mental Health tonight. He loves his beef rib bones, but if he gets one, it will be after his visit.

I just had this hilarious (to me) image of a dog going in to a therapy visit with pieces of raw meat hanging out of their mouth and blood all over, wagging their happy tail...hellooooo, everyone...

like a mussel with the 'beard' hanging out, people eat those, why??

When Tooz passed the TDI evaluation, I fully intended to do therapy work with her. I had friends at the time who had 2 greyhounds who did therapy work at a local senior center. They LOVED Tooz and encouraged me to get involved. Tooz passed the test with flying colors but when I tried to get her to settle at the center, she was much more interested in playing with people and fetching anything she could get her mouth on for someone to throw for her. The work was not a good fit for her. I am not sure if she was bored with the visits or she didn't know what her role was there. Maybe now that she is more mature, it would be different.

Yes, Tooz "earned" the TDI certification (not the title, which requires how many visits?) but I do not use it after her name because she isn't a working therapy dog.

As far as I know the TDI registration is given when the required tests are passed. I wasn't aware they had different levels based on # of hours.

Tooz may have not yet been mature (Skye took longer, my goofball) and you are probably right on the mark that it was not the right type of work. Tooz might have been great working in OT where a client might throw a ball over and over for the dog to return.

My two dogs are totally different in how they work and what they enjoy.

Again, to those who intended to work, I understand fully. Hopefully that is still something you may be able to do some day. My confusions was only with those who had no intention of doing AAT.

At the time that Delta Society made the rule that no raw fed dogs were allowed, they had a Purina executive on their Board of Directors. I looked it up at that time and she was listed. Many people think that's why the ruling came across, NOT because they're truly worried about diseases being passed. In addition, I looked up the "case studies" done at that time and I really questioned the validity of the information being bandied about. The case studies I saw were very much open to interpretation, and didn't have much control to them.

I'm on immunosuppressant drugs (due to my rheumatoid arthritis) for seven years now and have fed raw for much of that time. NEVER a problem with bacteria, etc. even when I was on corticosteroids or Enbrel. Granted, that doesn't prove anything, but I honestly don't worry about it. And when it comes to the therapy dog stuff, I questioned why the dogs could travel from room to room and be petted by sick people and yet not have to have any sort of cleaning before they go to the next room. Seems like that's much more of a risk than the remote possibility some bacteria may escape from your newly-groomed (including mouth cleaning, as per Delta rules) dog during a typical therapy dog visit.

Ill people benefit SO MUCH from a pet visit, and I hate to see limitations getting bigger and bigger on those visits. Have any of you actually seen or been involved in a pet-transferred illness related to a therapy dog visit?

Melanie and the girls

I have wondered if I brought something home to Max that caused a secondary infection for him due to his already weakened and compromised immune system. Mom was in ICu and then a rehab facility, after having a masty infection that she lost her colon to.

Both dogs got sicker after that, may be coincidence, but since Max appears to have different types of infections in him (as observed by his response to different types of abx), this thought has crossed my mind. Indy did make at least a couple visits to the rehab facility.

I know that you weren't think of the dog getting sick - I do think there are studies of dogs getting sick with a sick human in the house, found one regarding e.coli. When looking a long time ago.