I am trying to not do the things I did wrong with Molly. So while Cooper sees other dogs on our trips out to socialise and at training, I do not let him interact with them.

My question is does it matter at this age (11 weeks tomorrow) and in the future if he primarily only gets to interact with other GSD's? I don't know a lot of people with dogs that I would want him to play with so there is Basha (GSD) and Molly's dam and litter mate (GSD obviously). Next doors Lhasa Apso (sp) and eventually our friends Greyhound. But for the Grey, I want him to be much bigger in case Merlin thinks he is the rabbit!

Does it really matter that much if he has very limited playtime with only a handful of dogs? So long as he is exposed to seeing other dogs?

Thanks in advance for any feedback

IMO it depends on what you want to do with him plus his abilities and nature. The more positive dog socialisation the better, I think, as long as he looks to you in preference. If a non positive event occurs, it is good to have a large pool of positive dogs to quickly interact with to bypass the impact of that event for both dog and handler.

Cooper already seems very focussed on you in some of these photos but he also looks a very confident pup too and this may serve as a guide as to which path is best.

I think dog-to-dog play is important for several reasons. Play with fellow puppies teaches proper bite inhibition. The dogs learn to control their mouths and not bite with such intensity (hard bites = stoppage of play). Puppies should also play with stable, adult dogs as well to learn the nuances of proper canine behavior. Pups don't learn cut off signals and social etiquette from other puppies. They have to learn it from adult dogs who are less tolerant of rude behavior.

Ultimately, it does depend a lot on your goals for the pup. But, having a socially inept dog myself and constantly wishing other dogs were more knowledgeable of their own social graces, I think it's important for dogs to know proper behavior. Even if they're not going to the dog park daily.

When Kayos was a puppy I made the mistake of thinking she had to play with a lot of dogs, had to be able to meet other dogs that she saw on walks and this would make her more "social". With Max coming to us a rescue and with some dog aggression issues, I thought this would prevent that in Kayos. It did and it didn't. She is not dog aggresive but she can be leash rective with some dogs. I think it has to do with how she met some dogs on walks and how I reacted. Kayos was also not real keen on puppy play groups, and thankfully I knew enough not to force that and let her pick her own way. I should have been more supportive of her tho I think and not have forced her to meet strange dogs on walks.

In Havoc's case I decided he really did not need to meet every dog he saw. He had a few playmates both large and small, but not that many. He also loved puppy play time in puppy class. He still loves to play with his few buddies, loves small dogs, and is very good meeting other dogs on and off leash.

I think this is because 1. I did not force it on him like I did Kayos, thinking it would make him more "social" 2. He is a more confident dog than kayos is. 3. He learned good skills at his own speed without me forcing an interaction on him, this gave him the confidenece to make his choices and knew I would back him.

I guess with each dog you need to kind of feel out thier personality. Every dog needs to be able to be polite with other dogs. They may not want to nor should they be forced to meet and play with others. I do think that practicing social skills and learning how to read other dogs is an important part of puppy socialization. I do think Cooper needs to meet and interact with dogs of all sizes and sexes but not to be forced to nor put in a situation in which he may be hurt or scared. Some stress is good as long as he has a way to deal with. Each dog also needs to learn to deal with and handle some stress and the earlier they learn that the more malleable they will be as an adult. But again, have to feel out your dog and not put more on him than he can handle.

I guess the direct answer to your question would be yes, he can learn good skills with just playing with a few "known friendly" dogs. But I would get other dogs in the loop too if you can, small and medium size, without tails, etc. Does not have to be a lot of dogs just a variety.

I have been raising Zefra a totally different way than I did/do Stark.

She is a working dog and is being raised as such, but this doesn't mean that she doesn't get to have any fun either!

She only plays with a select few dogs; Stark, Hunter, a littermate or two, and one dog in my building. She does however encounter many dogs just in the building alone and when we go for our walks or to play at the park. I do not however allow her to play with dogs that I don't know, or dogs I know are pushy or dominant. Stark is pretty dominant with other dogs but allows little Zeffie to walk all over him so I allow the crazy play between them because I know Stark lets Zeffie win almost all the time. There are a few small dogs in my building who want to play with Zefra but will correct every move she makes and although she deserves it (she is wild!) I don't want her to keep getting corrected like that, so she just doesn't play with them. I am VERY selective in who she interacts with in terms of dogs.

I am lucky though.. my best friend has a GSD about 1.5 months younger than Zefra AND we both train in schutzhund... lol.. soooo... a lot of our "puppy playdates" are either socialization trips, training next to one another or doing some engagement work with the other "team" right next to us. They are learning that just because your buddy is next to you, it doesn't mean you get to go crazy and ignore mom. I can bring Zefra anywhere and she will ignore almost everything around her just to engage with me (even if I have nothing!).

I don't care if Zefra has a lot of doggie friends like Stark and it doesn't seem like she cares either. She gets to play with Stark, Hunter (friends pup), Buddy (neighbours dog) and some dogs at my breeders home (littermate and older dogs) and that is sufficient in my mind.

i want my dogs to ignore other dogs. i dont do the meet and greet however i want to be able to come up to someone with thier dog and have mine sit at my side without trying to "get to the other dog". since i trial i dont want my dogs to see another dog and think playtime. i dont do dog parks and have been chided by many who do, saying that there is no way that a dog can have a fullfilled happy life without being able to play with other dogs. oddly , these same folks have the dogs that are dominante towards others and are so out of control they CANT take thier dogs anywhere. somehow i think my dogs have fun with me, and dont need other dogs. i am not saying that i dont "train" with lots of dogs so that my dogs are around lots of different types of personalities and have been socialized around them... i just dont think it is somehting you HAVE to do (allow puppies to play with others)...

If I could go back and do things differently with Niko and Rosa, I would arrange for Rosa to meet lots more dogs (that I knew and trusted to be good to her), because that was something she really enjoyed and I feel like she missed out on a lot of fun experiences.

With Niko I would not force him to interact with other dogs. He clearly did not want to do this from the very beginning and we forced the issue and he was miserable. I think it did a lot of damage and set him up to take every dog interaction he had in the future as a negative one.

I wonder if it all depends on the temperament of the dog? If a dog is naturally outgoing, does socialization really matter (aside form learning manners and bite inhibition)? Obviously if a dog is not naturally outgoing, some work is probably advisable.

I too would go back and arrange lots more relaxed, calm, easygoing play dates. Really invaluable!

But after about age 5 months, puppy would get fewer play dates, and we'd really concentrate more on learning a specific concept: See a dog on a walk-- and walk right on by. No party, no interaction-- so no anticipation with each dog he sees.

FWIW, I do not need/want my dog to interact with every dog out there. Even if she weren't a dog reactive, socially inept fuzzball. HOWEVER, I think socialization is very important because, no matter how much you don't want your dog to meet other dogs, they inevitably do. And it's far easier to have a socially normal dog get rushed by another dog than to have one who's socially awkward in that instance. The first dog will let it roll off his back much easier than the second.

Risa benefits greatly from just walking on by dogs on walks. She gains confidence by realizing they are not going to come to get her and initiate a playdate. Same could be done with a non-reactive dog. It's all in the training. But I think it's still important to have a dog who knows how to properly interact with its own kind even if you have no intention of letting them do so on a regular basis.

JMO.

I don't think my dogs need to meet every dog they come across and I don't encourage them to. Same with people. However, I Do want them to know how to behave appropriately when they do meet other dogs and people. Even though these two are 4 years old, I am getting braver about Letting them meet other dogs and selective which ones.

Thank you all so much for you thoughts, I really do appreciate it.

Kathy, Molly sounds very much the same as Kayos. I did let her interact with almost any dog we came across. And now she is leash reactive (although getting better) and I think it is barrier frustration. She wants to go and play and she can't.

That's why I am trying to do things differently with Cooper (although I do suspect his temperament is and will be totally different than Moo's).

I did used to take her to the dog park and she never had a bad experience but I am not going to take Cooper. Although when he has finished his vac's I plan on being outside and using it as exposure while working on focus.

I think I need to find some friends with dogs

I do want him to be neutral to dogs/people/

Thanks again

That's our biggest challenge too!

Maybe a classified ad - desperately seeking friends with appropriate dogs!

Not a bad idea!!! Or try to find some one in the local club that wants to arrange play dates.

Kayos went to the dog park 3 or 4 times after she was 6 months old. She was never attacked but she was bullied by a Sibe once and we left quickly and never went back. Lesson learned. For some people the only method they have to lot thier dogs play is a dog park. Hopefully they use and chose carefully. I think dog park management is getting better than it was 8 years ago when Kayos went.

Havoc has never been to a dog park. I would rather pick and chose who he plays with as I know the dog. I don't think they need to play with a lot of dogs but I do think they need to play with other dogs regardless whether they are strictly for competiton or not. They still have to be able to exist and behave with other dogs.

I am certainly not a serious Schutzhund trainer but I am dabbling it in. I do see a distinct lack of social skills among many of the SchH dogs I see. That is fine if that is what the handler wants but I want to do other things with my dogs and I don't think letting them play with other dogs detracts from thier focus or obedience. Havoc had no problem keeping away from and ignoring the other dog when we checked in with the judge. The other dog went after him and the judge got all over the handler for failing to control his dog. I think allowing them to play and interact makes it easier to teach them when it is allowed and when it is not. I think someone with several dogs can accomplish within their own pack but if you only have one or two dogs I think they need more. JMHO.

I use screened dogs to play with Risa too. She's already dog reactive and doesn't need any more bad experiences. So I'm über picky about who I allow her to play with. She may only have good experiences with a limited selection of dogs, but even that has increased her confidence around her own kind. And I'd hate to increase her bad experiences by letting her interact with just any dog!

Thank you both again

We went to training again tonight and while I was working him, he totally ignored all that was going on around him (dogs, goats, a couple of kids...). So long as I can keep that up, I will be more than happy.

He did get to have a tiny play with one of the trainers 10 week old GSD girl. And later on I just brought him out to watch the other dogs.

And today he met the neighbours Lhasa Apso.

That's the thing I will not take him into the dog parks here but eventually I would like to take him to the beaches where he will encounter other dogs. I just do not know enough people with dogs I would think are suitable. But I guess I can ask at training if at the end, he could have a meet and greet.

Bianca, not sure what training you are doing with Cooper (SchH, I think right?) but most people, at least here will not do meet and greets on club grounds.

Mostly because they want the dog to be in the mind frame that "this place is where work is done, play time is with me only".

When my dogs go to the field to work, they NEVER meet other dogs for play time or any sort of meet and greet other than working next to one another or for the check-in (mock trial, working on something specific).

They view this place as a working area and I want and need my dogs to be in that mind set.

Now, we also train at my breeders house (farm with training grounds on it) in the winter and I find it harder to get focus there, not only because there are horses, geese they herd for fun, cats running around, and other fun smells but because they associate this place with play time. They go there to play with her dogs, run around the race track, etc... they come onto the property with a different mind set and you can visually see that.

I would ask the people in the club to meet away from the training grounds, find somewhere fun to take them, like the ocean, etc.. ? Hiking trails?

JMO.

Thank you Elisabeth, that makes total sense.