Well put and a great point (one I had not thought of/first para)!

Back a few years ago it was very much supported that you do not pick the little dog up around bigger dogs and I definitely would not want to tug on the dog and turn the dog into a flirt pole item.

I think the tragedy is that there is very little that the little dog person could have done to save his dog. I think that little dogs should be able to go out into public just the same as any other dog but unfortunately things like this show that it may not be so safe to do so.

If I were to keep a dog like this, after behavioral and medical evaluations because it was an odd behavior, there would be no off leash EVER.

My deepest condolences go out to the Chihuahua's owners. I am truly sorry for their loss.

While my advice would be to get a CBC, full thyroid and tick panels done, I'm suspecting that this was essentially a management error. A dog who sees many small dogs at rally class will be in a vastly different mindset when seeing a dog of any size trotting within his perceived territory. Add the jerky, frantic motions of many small dogs, and that may only add fuel to the fire of the normal-but-territorial dog's arousal level.

My heart goes out to the owners of the small dog.

Fortunately, secure doors, due dilligence, and better management of the dog (being on-lead going from house to car )are all management protocols easy to enforce now and in the future.

My wish is that a management error will not cost "C" his life. Perhaps the husband is worried about home insurance, or perhaps he is very embarrassed. I am sending good thoughts to the situation for "C."

Yes, and that was also a very balanced post Patti. I think of being the person in either half of that equation - the person watching their dog doing that, and the horror of being the person whose dog's last moments of awareness were like that.

People with big dogs can walk around pretty confident that there isn't going to be a bigger dog, typically, but once you've had a smaller dog, and have seen other dogs look at your dog in a way that is not pleasant...it's not a good feeling. Having a smaller dog is like having a puppy to protect for life, except no puppy license.

Thanks again to everyone. I think there is some excellent information to share and I think it will be helpful. I most certainly will continue to monitor this post and give them whatever support I can. You are all amazing people and the understanding and support I feel is just awesome.

I have never heard about predatory drift and googled it:
http://blogs.dogtime.com/go-dog-training/2009/02/what-is-predatory-drift

I'm very sorry that your friends and their dog are in this situation. Everyone must feel awful, but I don't think there is anyone to blame, even less than the owner of the little dog. It wouldn't matter if the person was walking a ferret down the road on leash, they weren't doing anything wrong.

I also wouldn't put the dog down because of this one, uncharacteristic incident. Not sure if it would be territorial aggression, especially if C has not shown any territorial aggression in the past. It really sounds, considering the speed at which it all happened, like there was some predatory instinct triggered by the little dog.

I think a change in vigilance and containment for C, in addition to a vet work up just to make sure. I wonder if it is predatory drift, if it is more likely to be a one-time-incident, or whether once triggered, it is more likely to be triggered again?

I do want to say that I think it's horrible that this happened and I'm not trying to take blame away from C's owner, just that there were things that should have been done differently all around. Ultimately, it's C and his owner's fault....it just breaks my heart to think for something like this they want to put their dog down.

I understand nobody is placing blame. Lots of things contributed to this tragedy and not one thing alone is to blame. I know it is human for people to question themselves and what they could have done differently and with each one people learn. It is a tough way to learn, but even I have had issues with my dog that I have learned from and I have to be vigilant and manage her environment so that these things don't happen. And when they happen, it is very fast!

I wonder if C's mind was in an hyper/excited state...think about it. Loading up a car with rally/agility equipment probably got her a bit pumped up. I know if our pups see a backpack they get excited cause they're GOING SOMEWHERE FUN!! Add to that it's something they haven't done in a while and BAM! SUPER EXCITED PUP!

If you combine an excited state of mind with prey drive, it could lead to what happened. I would not put a dog down for that...we do have to remember these are dogs, then add in prey drive with an excited mind that's "not thinking" clearly.

It's a horrible situation all the way around, there's tons of "what ifs" and "should have's" after the fact, but that can't change now. You can learn from the situation and see what caused it. Poor families.

Yes I have and I think we have chatted about them a lot on several boards! For education purposes I will address them again here as I feel it may be relevant to "C". Many are aware of them many not, so if you are I apologize in advance for re-hashing again. As Max is gone now due to old age issues and not dog/dog aggression I feel like I can contribute here about this even though it makes me remember my dear boy so fondly and with grief still.

Max came to me as a rescue. He was maybe a year or 18 months old at the time. Totally wild, an escape artist with no training at all. He would jump the fence and accompany the neighborhood kids as they played and rode bikes. The parents were terrified although Max never did anything that would hint at aggression. We kind of figured he must have come from a home with children as he loved them so much. I decided to try agility with him to give him an outlet for his fence jumping.

We trained and trialled very successfully until the pit bull attack. A PB came across a lawn as we were coming home from our walk and jumped Max. I kicked it til it let go and it turned on me grabbing my knee. Max turned and grabbed it's head, nicking an artery near its eye. Thank goodness for the plumber passing by as my screams for help were not heard by the PB owner who was working with a power saw on his driveway with his back turned. The plumber jumped out of his truck and beat the dog off with a shovel, helped us home and gave his info and statement to the sheriff. I went to the ER and Max went to the vet. We both had numerous punctures that healed within a few weeks. The PB owner threatened to sue as Max had nearly killed his dog. The sheriff told him he needed to go away and stay away and pray I did not sue him. I did not sue him.

Thinking nothing of it, I returned to an agility trial a month later and Max went after a dog at the gate. I was stunned! He never got his mouth on him but I had to withdraw him and re-group. We worked for nearly a year on the dog issue and thought we had it licked. I entered again but this time he bailed off the pause table and grabbed a Border Collie. The BC was not injured as the owner and others standing by acted quickly to kick Max off. I was over the ring gate and had Max by the collar and out of the building within seconds. I crated him in the van and went to face the music. It was not pleasant, I am not a cryer but I was in tears. Thankfully our trainer saw the whole thing and was able to speak for us at the bench hearing that AKC commenced immediately. I was so upset I could not talk, I was literally shaking and crying so hard I could not stand. I felt so bad for the BC, the other owner and for my dog who I had put in a bad spot and caused to react by my careless management.

Max was retired immediately and never saw another dog show or agility trial.

His dog/dog aggression persisted for years and I never quit working on it. Eventually we over came it and he spent his last years happily meeting other dogs. He WAS NOT EUTHANIZED for this!!!

Dog / dog aggression is no fun but it is manageable.

Unless the owner of the Chi makes waves and lawyers up and threatens to sue I would NOT PTS "C" !!! I would manage him.

I still think this was a case of a dog that was excited to be going with mom and dad and just lost himself. I do not think this was true dog/do aggression but without knowing the dog who is to say?

My Kayos has to be watched for occasional predatory drift. I can see her wheels turn and the switch activate with her. She has, to date, never put her mouth on another dog. I also never let her play off leash with small dogs. She is fine with medium and large dogs but NEVER small dogs.

I hope "C"'s family gives him a break. Consider offering to replace the dog that was killed. Not that you can really replace a living being but they may be interested in another dog to help them thru the grief.


Many hugs to "C" and his family and the family of the poor Chi.